ข่าวสารตลาด & มุมมองเชิงลึก

What a week and a half we have had - Central Banks the world over have delivered their May decisions for their respective interest rate moves (or non-moves). Thus, we need to review the FX reactions and the outlook for rates for the rest of 2024. Let’s start at home: RBA and the AUD First, as expected the Reserve Bank of Australia (RBA) left rates on hold at 4.35%, this was expected however the prospect of rate cuts in 2024 is fading fast.

That was brought to light in the statement and Michele Bullock’s press conference. Here's a breakdown of the key points: Inflation Dynamics: The RBA notes that inflation is declining, albeit at a slower pace than expected. Services inflation is moderating gradually, driven by a labour market that the RBA now perceives as tighter than previously assessed.

This indicates that the labour market conditions are exerting influence on inflation dynamics. Monetary Policy: The RBA views its current monetary policy stance as restrictive, with the cash rate level seen as supportive of achieving the target inflation range of 2–3%. However the Board did leave the door open for all movements both hikes and cuts if inflation doesn’t return target inside a meaningful timeframe.

Other Considerations: The RBA remains attentive to developments in the global and domestic economy, the outlook for inflation and the labour market. Thus, it remains data-dependent to policy decisions. What caught our attention the most was the shift in language, particularity the downplaying of supply-side inflation and the attention on domestic demand which is still be too high leading to the same sticky inflation effect we are seeing in the US.

The FX market reaction was mixed on all this, the initial reaction was bearish as the more hawkish bets of the previous few weeks unwound. However, the AUD remains one of the best performing currencies in the G10. With the RBA signalling that its next move may still be a hike it is likely to remain in the ascendancy against those FX players that are facing confirmed cuts in the coming months.

BoE and GBP It seems like the Bank of England (BoE) is navigating through some interesting waters with its monetary policy decisions. The Board voted 7-2 vote to keep rates at 5.25%, but it was Governor Andrew Bailey's remarks post the decisions that caught the market’s attention hinting at a potential shift towards a sharper and faster accommodative stance. The fact that money markets are fully pricing in a rate cut by August, with a considerable probability assigned to a cut in June (44%), indicates a significant anticipation of policy easing.

But Bailey’s suggestion suggests it could be sooner and stronger than priced. No doubt the BoE's decision-making will indeed be influenced by upcoming data on wage settlements and inflation. But it’s clear the impact on the GBP is one way and that is down, particularly when it’s against the likes of the USD or AUD.

It’s a slight more mixed position against the EUR, SEK and CAD as their respective banks are also pointing to rate cuts. ECB and the EUR The EUR is facing a mixed bag having eased through the year but is facing a complex interplay between economic data, market sentiment, and central bank expectations. For example despite some mixed German economic indicators, EUR managed to strengthen last week supported by positive developments in German exports and stronger Eurozone retail sales.

The real headwind for the EUR is the speculation of when (not if) European Central Bank (ECB) will rate cuts. Speculation is rising that next month’s meeting will be the start point after the minutes from the last meeting reinforced dovish bets. Something to watch, the upcoming release of May’s ZEW economic sentiment index for Germany could provide further insight into the economic outlook.

If the sentiment continues to improve, particularly in the Eurozone's largest economy, it could lend support to the EUR amid ongoing uncertainties surrounding ECB policy decisions. Watch the likes of EURGBP and EURSEK in particular. Riksbank and SEK And finally, a mover.

For the first time in 8 years the Riksbank lowered its key interest rate to 3.75% after a two-year period of rate hikes. Governor Erik Thedeen's indication that two more rate cuts are likely in the second half of the year, contingent upon inflation remaining subdued, reflects the proactive stance aimed at supporting economic stability from the Bank. However, Thedeen's emphasized caution as the economic landscape and potential risks associated with policy changes could change the Bank’s outlook.

This could explain the reaction of the SEK to the rate cut a short-lived weakening then a recovery. This highlights the interplay between monetary policy as bigger players such as the BoE and ECB could overrun the dovishness in the smaller SEK for the bigger EUR and GBP.

One of the largest software companies in the world, Adobe Inc. (NASDAQ: ADBE) announced Q1 FY2024 earnings results after the market closed in the US on Thursday. The company achieved revenue of $5.182 billion – a new record vs. $5.143 billion expected. Revenue grew by 11% year-over-year.

Earnings per share (EPS) was reported at $4.48 (up from $3.80 in 2023) vs. $4.377 per share estimate. Adobe expects revenue of between $5.25 and $5.30 billion for the current quarter, which would fall below Wall Street estimate of $5.31 billion. EPS expected at between $4.35 and $4.40 vs. $4.37 per share estimate.

Company overview Founded: December 1982 Headquarters: San Jose, California, United States Number of employees: 26,000 (2022) Industry: Software Key people: Shantanu Narayen (Chairman & CEO) CEO commentary "Adobe drove record Q1 revenue demonstrating strong momentum across Creative Cloud, Document Cloud and Experience Cloud," Shantanu Narayen, CEO of Adobe said in a press release to shareholders. "We’ve done an incredible job harnessing the power of generative AI to deliver groundbreaking innovation across our product portfolio," Narayen added. Stock reaction There was no major movement in Adobe share price before the earnings call. The stock was down by 0.54% at $570.45 a share.

Shares fell by around 10% in the after-hours trading despite beating analyst estimates on future guidance. Stock performance 5 day: +2.59% 1 month: -3.39% 3 months: -2.43% Year-to-date: -4.38% 1 year: +61.47% Adobe stock price targets BNP Paribas: $499 Piper Sandler: $705 Barclays: $700 Stifel Nicolaus: $625 Royal Bank of Canada: $615 Citigroup: $675 BMO Capital Markets: $690 KGI Securities: $730 DA Davidson: $640 Oppenheimer: $660 HSBC: $519 Argus: $611 Wolfe Research: $650 Bank of America: $660 Adobe Inc. is the 42 nd largest company in the world with a market cap of $258.15 billion, according to CompaniesMarketCap. You can trade Adobe Inc. (NASDAQ: ADBE) and many other stocks from the NYSE, NASDAQ, HKEX and ASX with GO Markets as a Share CFD on the MetaTrader 5 platform.

To find out more, go to "Trading" then select "Share CFDs". GO Markets offers pre-market and after-market trading on popular US Share CFDs. Why trade during extended hours?

Volatility never sleeps. Trade over earnings releases as they happen outside of main trading hours Reduce your risk and hedge your existing positions ahead of a new trading day Extended trading hours on popular US stocks means extended opportunities Sources: Adobe Inc., TradingView, MarketWatch, MarketBeat, CompaniesMarketCap

Accenture plc (NYSE: ACN) announced Q2 of fiscal 2024 earnings results before the US market opened on Thursday. Irish-American professional services company reported revenue that fell slightly short of analyst estimate of $15.847 billion at $15.8 billion. Earnings per share reached $2.77 for the quarter vs. $2.661 per share expected.

Company overview Founded: 1989 Headquarters: Dublin, Ireland Number of employees: 733,000 (2023) Industry: Professional services, information technology consulting Key people: Julie Sweet (Chair and CEO) CEO commentary "In an uncertain macro environment, we remain the trusted partner to our clients for reinvention with a record 39 clients with quarterly bookings of over $100 million. We also extended our early lead in generative AI with $1.1 billion in new bookings in the first half of the year. And we are investing to serve the needs of our clients and expand our growth opportunities with $2.9 billion of capital deployed in the first half in strategic acquisitions.

Thank you to our more than 740,000 people around the world for your dedication to delivering value for our clients," Julie Sweet, CEO of Accenture said in a note to shareholders. Stock reaction Share price fell by around 9% on Thursday to $346.12 a share – the lowest level since January. Stock performance 5 day: +0.59% 1 month: +2.46% 3 months: +9.09% Year-to-date: +8.42% 1 year: +40.04% Accenture stock price targets Guggenheim: $425 Redburn Atlantic: $445 Morgan Stanley: $417 Stifel Nicolaus: $395 Piper Sandler: $394 Citigroup: $430 Robert W.

Baird: $375 Bank of America: $419 Royal Bank of Canada: $374 Mizuho: $426 UBS Group: $400 BNP Paribas: $440 BMO Capital Markets: $385 Wedbush: $360 TD Cowen: $360 Barclays: $390 JP Morgan Chase & Co.: $341 Accenture plc is the 44 th largest company in the world with a market cap of $238.53 billion, according to CompaniesMarketCap. You can trade Accenture plc (NYSE: CAN) and many other stocks from the NYSE, NASDAQ, HKEX and ASX with GO Markets as a Share CFD on the MetaTrader 5 platform. To find out more, go to "Trading" then select "Share CFDs".

GO Markets offers pre-market and after-market trading on popular US Share CFDs. Why trade during extended hours? Volatility never sleeps.

Trade over earnings releases as they happen outside of main trading hours Reduce your risk and hedge your existing positions ahead of a new trading day Extended trading hours on popular US stocks means extended opportunities Sources: Accenture plc, TradingView, MarketWatch, MarketBeat, CompaniesMarketCap

Public Wi-Fi hotspots are found everywhere in places like your local shops, cafes, hotels, and even at some parks. They can be a convenient way to access the internet when you are out, have poor reception, or are travelling overseas. Learn more about public Wi-Fi and using it securely.

Like many things online, there are risks involved when using public Wi-Fi hotspots. They can be accessed by anyone, and are often free and unsecured. These hotspots can be an attractive target for cybercriminals, who may try to use them to steal your passwords or sensitive information.

Case Study A NSW man recently became aware that he was a victim of identity theft. He was told he owed over $7000 in fees to a company, for the purchase of gift cards and digital subscriptions that were sent to unknown email addresses. On investigation, he found there were multiple inquiries on his credit report around the same time.

The first credit inquiry happened not long after travelling overseas, where he had used his laptop. While connected to a public Wi-Fi hotspot during his trip at the airport, he had sent ID documents to his parents, including his passport and birth certificate. It turns out he had connected to a fake Wi-Fi hotspot which was set up by a cybercriminal.

The cybercriminal was able to intercept his ID documents, and use them to steal the man’s identity. It is important to be aware of the risks, and to develop secure habits when making use of these hotspots. Follow these tips the next time you are thinking about connecting to a public Wi-Fi hotspot: 1.

Check you are connecting to the right hotspot Anyone can create a free Wi-Fi hotspot, including cybercriminals. Wi-Fi and hotspot names are not unique, and they can be reused by anyone. A cybercriminal may try to take advantage of this by copying and posing as a legitimate hotspot.

Ensure you are connecting to the hotspot you intend. You can do this by: Checking the hotspot’s name on signage, or directly with staff at the venue. Preventing your device from automatically connecting to the hotspot.

Disable features such as “auto-join” or “auto connect” for public hotspots. Where possible, choose hotspots that require a password. Try to avoid “open” or “unsecure” networks.

As an extra precaution, ‘forget’ the network in your Wi-Fi settings after you have finished using it. This will prevent your device automatically reconnecting in the future. If in doubt, do not connect to the hotspot.

Instead, wait until you can use a trusted network such as your home, office or mobile connection. 2. Check you are visiting secure webpages When a webpage is secure, the information that you send to it is encrypted and cannot be intercepted and read by cybercriminals. You can check that a webpage is secure by: Looking for ‘https’ and the lock symbol in the address bar on your web browser.

Ensure that the webpage is what you expect. If your browser displays a warning message when you try to visit a website, do not continue. Stop using the hotspot, disconnect, and ‘forget’ it on your device. 3.

Disable file sharing Some devices may allow your files to be shared over Wi-Fi, which can be useful when you are at home or work. When connecting to public Wi-Fi, ensure you switch off file sharing. This will prevent a cybercriminal from potentially accessing your files, or putting malicious files on your device.

These features can vary depending on your device. To learn more about the different types of sharing options on your device, see Microsoft’s guidance for Windows and Apple’s guidance for Mac. When joining a new Wi-Fi hotspot, you may be asked to select if a network is public or private, ensure you select public.

This will also automatically disable file sharing. 4. Think twice about what you access Public Wi-Fi hotspots cannot always be trusted. Reconsider your need to access sensitive information, such as your online banking.

If possible, wait until you are using a secure home, office or mobile connection. 5. Use a VPN A virtual private network (VPN) is a service that encrypts and secures your data when using the internet. It acts as an extra layer of protection when using public Wi-Fi hotspots.

If you use public Wi-Fi hotspots frequently, install and use a reputable VPN service on your device. When considering which VPN service to use, research each product and its company. VPN providers have access to a large amount of their user’s data, so it is important to know about their privacy policy, how they store information, and if they share it.

Look at independent reviews online to make an informed, secure decision. Source: Australian Signals Directorate. Original article available here.

Tom Williams ( @TomW_GOMarkets ) is the GO Markets Head of Trading. He started out as a dealer and broker in the excitement-driven city of London across equities, fixed income and foreign exchange. Learning the technical aspects of what is now a software-driven business has allowed Tom to lead all trading operations at GO Markets, literally keeping the show on the road.

Old Scouse loves a laugh and a pint and is always affable enough to show you the bright side of life (as Monty Python says). In this episode we'll cover: What brought Tom to Australia and what he misses about the UK His role as head of trading at GO Markets The Swiss National Bank Crisis The GFC and Brexit - Transcript Disclaimer: Go Markets is a derivatives broker and Jordan Michaelides is the managing director of Neuralle Media. All opinions expressed by Jordan and podcast guests are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of Go Markets, an AFSL license holder.

This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for financial decisions nor as an indication of future performance. Clients of Go Markets may hold positions in the derivatives mentioned. A financial services guide and product disclosure statement for our products are available at the www.gomarkets.com website.

Jordan Michaelides: In this episode we spoke with Tom Williams. Tom is Go Markets head of trading and he started out as a dealer and broker in the excitement driven city of London across equities, fixed income and foreign exchange. Learning the technical aspects of what is now very a software driven business has allowed Tom to lead all trading operations at Go Markets, keeping the show literally on the road.

Tom loves a laugh and a pint, is always affable enough to show you the bright side of life, as Monte Python would say. This is a fascinating episode where we cover what brought him here to Australia and what he misses about the UK. His role as head of trading at Go Markets, particularly examples or crises like the Swiss national bank crisis, the GFC and Brexit, as well as what sitcom best portrays the Go Markets office.

If you enjoy this episode, subscribe on your podcast app and share with one of your friends, particularly those who want to get an understanding of the more technical aspects when it comes to trading and what goes on behind the scenes. With that being said, let's get into the episode with Tom Williams. Tom, thanks for joining me on me what has turned into a rather miserable Friday afternoon in the Go Markets office.

First question for you, how was the wedding? Tom Williams: The wedding was stressful, but, it was great fun. We went up to Queensland and got the families from New Zealand, from Queensland, from England, all over, and a lot of them met for the first time which was great, but stressful being centre of attention and having to entertain that many people for a few days.

Jordan Michaelides: How long had you guys been planning this wedding? How much time do you spend typically on a wedding planning? Tom Williams: For me, a lot less than my wife *laughs*.

I'd say I had a passive involvement in the organization of the wedding. Jordan Michaelides: I like that. I like that you're aware of that too.

Tom Williams: I mean, my wife's a florist, as you know, so from the events side of it she's got way more experienced than I have, I would have just messed the whole thing up if I had anything to do with it. Jordan Michaelides: Now, I want to get into how I guess a liver Puglian made his way here to Australia, but I'll give people a little bit of a background first. So, obviously you were born and bred in Liverpool.

From looking at your past history you spent about five years in the business in the city of London before you made your way out here, working in many different roles, but primarily as a dealer. Equities, fixed income, eventually CFDs as well, which is what Go Markets focuses on now. What was the catalyst that drew you out to Australia?

Tom Williams: The catalyst to go to Australia was and event that happened in 2012 when the company I was working for at the time went into administration, and there was a moment where I could either continue the daily grind in London, or take some time out and go and see the world a bit, which is what I did. I took nearly a year off and ended up in South America, which is where I met my now wife, in Peru. She was from Australia and I had to come over here to, you know, seal the deal.

Jordan Michaelides: So really it was like love that the drew you out here, you could say. Tom Williams: Well, I had no intention of moving away from the UK, you know, I never considered what it'd be like not working in the UK. I guess the opportunity was there and it seemed like the right thing to do and it's worked out pretty well.

Jordan Michaelides: Yeah, I would definitely say that. And it's so fascinating. I just look at it from your position and I don't think you would have ever expected to be in this situation five, six years ago.

Tom Williams: Absolutely. I couldn't have even imagined it to be honest. Jordan Michaelides: Also, it's interesting because of just where the UK is at and what Australia offers.

The other day I was looking at like immigration numbers the UK is still the biggest source in terms of growth through immigration, I'm pretty sure next to China. I think it's still the biggest because a lot of millennials like yourself come out here and there's just so much opportunity. You can speak the language, you get sun.

Tom Williams: Yeah. I mean the UK is a great place to live, but we just, we don't have the weather. I'm not saying that I'm much of a beach goer, but we just don't have the sorts of lifestyle that good, consistent, good weather brings.

We have long winters and miserable rainy days. Melbourne winter is considered a bad winter in Australia, but you still get lovely sunny days and it's just a more positive place to be, that people are more positive as a result of the lifestyle that Australia offers. Jordan Michaelides: And apart from your family, what do you miss the most about home?

Tom Williams: This is a question I get asked quite frequently and it's a struggle to answer it because there's not a lot that I do miss from the UK really, except family and friends to be honest. Jordan Michaelides: Not even football? Tom Williams: The football side of it, you just learn to live with it.

Thanks to Optus, you can catch up on demand pretty easily. So, to be honest, I don't miss a lot in terms of lifestyle or anything like that. Jordan Michaelides: Well, that’s good to hear.

And, eventually citizenship for yourself, like one of the other poms that we have in the office here would be good to see. I'm thinking about your family in particular, and I'm curious as I like to know from a lot of guests, if you can think back to your own childhood, and about your parents, is there a particular lesson or principle that you maybe hold with you today that you saw directly or indirectly from them, and you later realized it's a core tenant of your personality. Tom Williams: I suppose hard work, and discipline as well.

Growing up in a city like Liverpool, you could be led astray in a number of different directions. My father is a policeman, so he was always very strict and perhaps, saw me going in the wrong direction when I was younger. Nothing crazy, I'm talking just normal teenage stuff that you kind of get yourself involved in, but obviously he didn't turn a blind eye to that.

He put me on the right tracks. So, yeah, discipline, hard work. My father retired as a superintendent in the police, which is a pretty senior role to get to, and he worked very hard for it.

I guess that's always resonated with me. Jordan Michaelides: Now thinking about work, your role here is head of trading, which is a thing that people see a lot on different roles for people in different CFD and equity organizations, but they don't really know what it is. I thought maybe we'll just get into the nuts and bolts of that.

What does that look like? I'm trying to give people the context of 2003 to 2005, you would have still been on the phones a lot, taking orders. Now most systems are quite automated and electronic.

So what does your role of head and trading involve? Tom Williams: So, we try and focus on the overall client experience with the trading platform, whether that be from a cost perspective in terms of the spreads that they're paying, the commissions that they're paying, the overnight financing, all the way through to the quality of execution, so, how quickly are these clients able to execute? Are they able to execute during fast markets?

Are they able to execute around news, and we try to control the overall cost of trading to make the whole experience better for the client. Jordan Michaelides: So basically you make sure the shit doesn't hit the fan in a way. Tom Williams: Pretty much.

That's one element of it, for sure. As you touched on before, a lot of it is automated. All of our hedging algorithms, everything is automated.

It very much becomes autopilot to make sure that nothing goes wrong. And when stuff does go wrong, the most important thing that our team can do is make sure it's put right as quickly as possible. Jordan Michaelides: Are there any particular crazy stories that come to mind?

I know that in my time here we had some pretty stunning events where the markets were more than wild. I know in our last interview with Chris Gore, he spoke about dealing with the Swiss bank, taking away that peg from the Euro. I'm just curious, are there any crazy stories that you have in memory of the market just going absolutely nuts.

Tom Williams: There's definitely a few. There were a couple after the Swiss national bank crisis. Since then we've had a UK referendum.

We've had the election of Donald Trump. There's been a number of associated issues like a Sterling flash crash, which just came out of absolutely nowhere. Jordan Michaelides: When was that?

Tom Williams: That was soon after the referendum on Brexit. The market started to settle down and then out of nowhere there was a huge liquidity drain. Markets these days are so dictated by algorithms and high frequency trading systems that if there's a liquidity drain, it happens immediately.

It's not something that happens over time. So, yeah, we have witnessed a few occasions like that, but most notable is definitely the Swiss banking crisis, when the Swiss national bank just… leading up to the events, decided that they were going to tell the market that they were going to maintain this peg of 120 against the Euro and that they were committed to doing this, and Thomas Jordan, the chairman of the SNB at the time came out a week prior and said we're committed to holding this peg, then all of a sudden shocked the market and said that this is not something that we can feasibly do. I think it was the 15th of Jan 2015, so it was soon after the Christmas break, everybody was just getting back into the swing of things and all of a sudden, a phone call at 10:00 PM at night saying get into the office, the shit’s hit the fan.

So, there were a number of us in the office at the time, it was all hands on deck. Nobody really knew what was going on. The news was out, we knew what happened, but we didn't know how markets were going to react.

Nobody could really price where they thought the Swiss Frank was, banks in particular. There was a lot of uncertainty around where things actually traded, where the market is, where it should be. This went on for a week after the event, which markets have never seen before.

It was a crazy time. Jordan Michaelides: To me that’s very interesting. I mean, I've read about it, but we don't see behind the scenes, you know.

The things that you guys see. If you were to think of the most crucial aspect of your role, you spoke before about execution, liquidity, supervising, all that sort of stuff, what do you think is the most important? The number one aspect of being head of trading.

Tom Williams: I think without a doubt it's going to be attention to detail, being observance and not missing things. At the same time, it's important to remember what everybody's working towards and what the end goal is, which essentially for an online FX broker is to have a product which is efficient for the clients. The competition amongst the FX brokers these days is so… There's so many brokers out there, everybody's trying to compete on cost and these discount pricing models.

If you fall behind the wolf-pack you're going to struggle to get in front again. It's very important for us to just remember the end goal of what we're trying to achieve, which is to create this superior platform to our competitors. Jordan Michaelides: I think Chris Gore spoke about that last week that because it's so competitive now, the main advantage you have is just being trusted and people know that a company like Go Markets has been around for a while and can be trusted to maintain certain best practices or expectations through the market prices, or, the spreads that people get as an example.

I find it interesting that you said the most crucial component is attention to detail because if you think about the principles that you took away from your dad, it's working hard and discipline. And that is like the perfect thing for attention to detail. We were chatting before about what we want to talk about in this session and you spoke before about Brexit.

I feel like you would have had a bit of experience, just from memory. we had a chat years ago about the Lehman brothers collapsed and the 10 year anniversary of the GFC. The effect on the UK was pretty similar, although a bit different. The governments seemed to offer this money to these banks, but they wanted shares in return and I'm pretty sure the government did pretty well buying a large portion of Lloyd's.

I'm just curious, you got into the industry around ’09, what memory do you have of that period? Tom Williams: I was in the industry prior to ’09, I was in the industry from ’07, so I was around when all this happened but I was very young, and I wasn't in a responsible position, but I remember sheer, um, fear and. In the UK there were customers queued up at banks trying to withdrawal their cash, which obviously doesn't work because banks don't hold that amount of cash.

There were banks going into administration, there was footage all over the TVs of people packing boxes up, like Lehman brothers for example, was a huge tower in Canary Wharf which was just down the road from where I was working at the time. It was just like Armageddon, you know, people didn't really know what was going to go on after that, but things worked out okay. But you know, who paid for that whole crisis in the end, it was probably not the banks.

It was probably the people. Jordan Michaelides: Going back to that point I made about the banks basically having shares purchased by the government, it was the taxpayer's money. It went back to the government and then the UK went through a massive austerity process because it was part of the EU.

That's what you had to do. Tom Williams: Exactly. There were huge welfare cuts.

Jordan Michaelides: I reckon that’s actually why we've seen so many poms immigrated out here, simply because the opportunities dried up. It's easier to come to Australia as an Englishman and the opportunities are pretty great. There’s also a lot of family connections for a lot of people as well.

Tom Williams: It’s also quality of life. If you're a plumber or a carpenter, an electrician, a welder in the UK, your quality of life is dictated by the amount you’re able to earn in those roles in the UK. Whereas you come to Australia and everybody has a good quality of life.

There's a good sort of minimum earning for any role in. It turns out that the tradies in Australia probably do better than anyone else better. I've always loved that about Australia, the fact that there are equal opportunities no matter what sorts of road you chose to go down.

Jordan Michaelides: I'd definitely agree with that. Why Brexit came along, which I want to chat about, is because you know, you have all this immigration, austerity processes in the UK, combine that all together and you’ve got yourself the perfect storm for what happened with Brexit because if you're a plumber living in the Midlands and you're getting paid by the hour, and some guy from Eastern Europe has immigrated over and he's happy to work for 10 or 15 bucks an hour then life’s going to be pretty average, I'd say. Tom Williams: Yeah.

Brexit highlights some fundamental problems with the Eurozone, doesn't it? The Eurozone has always been criticized for being this huge block of very different economies which all governed by a single interest rates and it's always been a, a complex system from day one. The funny thing about Brexit was the lefties got behind Europe and they wanted solidarity with Europe, the city of London, which is a huge part of GDP obviously got behind Brexit because the lack of borders in financial markets is very important, but then it was the exact sort of demographic that you just highlighted, the guys who don't fit into those two baskets that I've just spoke about.

They think ‘what's in this for me?’ I suppose as with any of these decisions, it depends on what newspaper you read. If you're buying a tabloid for a pound with a page three girl and you're basing your political votes on a tabloid then that might be what happens. Jordan Michaelides: It’s interesting.

My view on it initially was this isn't a great thing, they've going backwards here. But then I've had the time to sort of process it, and, I like Nigel Farage a speaker, but, when you actually watch him in interviews he goes a lot deeper into some of the reasons why, and having been involved in similar industries such as Forex and Cryptocurrencies, we've now seen the city of London actually come out here. My own view is that the UK seems to be pivoting itself towards Asia.

And we've got these FinTech bridge, which is sort of like a compliance bridge through Australia. There's the free trade agreement which they gunning on. My own view is that actually it's probably going to turn out better for them, simply because they can use Australia as a stepping stone to the biggest market in the world, I think Asia now, without the Indian sub-continent I think is about 46% of world GDP.

So, it's the biggest market in the world, bigger than North America. How do you view it now? In hindsight?

Tom Williams: Day to day, it's purely the uncertainty surrounding how this Brexit is actually going to happen. Long-term it will work itself out, as all these things always do. It's not a case of the UK leaving the Eurozone and all of a sudden nobody wants to trade with the UK, it’s just ridiculous to think that.

I suppose it depends on the negotiating powers of the UK government, whoever's there at the time to be able to go and strike these agreements with Asia, as you've just suggested. Jordan Michaelides: It's going to be interesting. They’re not getting very far at the moment, I think it's March or something that it finishes up.

Going back to the industry now and then, last week we spoke about trends, obviously cryptocurrencies have been a big thing, I guess for the business here. There's also the fact that, like I was saying before, the role that you would have as head of trading being on a phone versus it more around automation now, I was chatting to Khim Khor before, who's one of the directors here, in charge of the Asia business, and we were speaking about the institutional side of things and APIs. I'm curious as to what you guys have done around that because he was telling me that you led something in that area in particular.

Tom Williams: So, as you know we've got a lot of retail clients in Australia and overseas and we've managed to, over the years, generate great relationships with the wholesale market in terms of liquidity providers, prime brokers, prime of primes, and, we also have a very healthy balance sheet which enables us to go and strike good liquidity terms with these counterparts. Our business has changed somewhat in that it's not completely retail led. We are approached by a lot of wholesale type clients these days, including funds, other brokers who are maybe smaller than us, who don't carry the same sorts of balance sheet, who want to be able to get access to very tight pricing, commercial terms that they might not be able to achieve elsewhere, so, we've transitioned from this purely retail driven model to now be able to compete as a liquidity provider ourselves.

Jordan Michaelides: Wow. I didn't know that. So, now if you had to break down the percentage of the clients, or let's say the amount of sales and volume of transactions between wholesale and retail, what do you reckon the percentages are?

Tom Williams: In terms of monthly turnover I'd say it's around 66% retail, 33% wholesale. I mean, the sheer volume that a wholesale client can do is obviously the reason behind that. They can have good months, they can have terrible months, but retail is still the majority of our business and that's where we try to differentiate ourselves away from competitors because it ties in with the whole online marketing and… Jordan Michaelides: It’s interesting to hear how the trading desk is changing in that regard.

It's one of those things you have to keep growing somehow. You got to keep doing new things. Tom Williams: Diversification of flow is becoming very important for us as well, because, retail tends to go completely one way and the whole retail market all read the same news so everybody kind of trades in a similar fashion, and for us to be able to reduce costs by internalization, we need to be able to see different types of flow from different demographics.

Jordan Michaelides: And put it put the opposing way out essentially. Tom Williams: Exactly. Jordan Michaelides: Interesting.

Now, what I'd like to ask each guest is, I'm giving the audience an idea of what the office here is like. I was saying to Chris last week that it’s a pretty impressive company, there's a lot of staff, I think there's like 40 or so staff now, a big office, nice officers. I just want to give people an idea of what the team is like and how… because we're so removed from seeing the people behind the business are actually like, and so I'm curious, if you were to choose one sitcom that represents the go market office, do you have one in mind or what would it be?

Tom Williams: Should I ask what Chris's answer to this was? Jordan Michaelides: Hmm. You don't want to know.

Tom Williams: Okay, well, my answer would definitely be the UK version of the office. I think we've think we've definitely got a David Brent character. Jordan Michaelides: Yes, and that would be Chris who claimed that last week.

Tom Williams: Did he claim it? Really? I must have drilled into him.

I like that. But no, the office, it's a great environment. It’s a fairly young demographic, it's not a load of old-boys sat there, it's new, educated, friendly people to work with.

It's a good place to be. Jordan Michaelides: We're running at a time, so I want to switch to some short fast, questions for you. What does your morning routine look like?

Tom Williams: My morning routine is very straight forward. I've just moved house, so my tram route to work has train changed slightly. I get into the office at around 7:00am and get in touch with what's gone on overnight. 7:00am is New York close, so there's not really a lot going on after that, markets have settled down.

Time to read some news, the ASX has still got a couple of hours to open, so, get to work, have some breakfast, get ready for the day. Jordan Michaelides: And the evening? How do you sort of decompress at night?

What's your go to for relaxing? Tom Williams: Go to the gym, go boxing, kickboxing, I do that three or four times a week. I head home, dinner will be on the table… no, I wish! *laughs* You know my wife, but no, she's good, she is good.

I just kick back most of the time. Most of the time during the week, it's an early night. Jordan Michaelides: What’s the most influential book on your life.

Let's say if you had to gift it to someone at Kris Kringle this year at Go Markets, what would you gift? Tom Williams: God, this could be controversial, couldn’t it. One that's always struck a chord with me is ‘The God Delusion’.

Have you read it? Jordan Michaelides: I just bought it. I go through this heavy process of building a list of books every year and then I buy them all at once after I cull that list.

I just got that one. Tom Williams: Well, being brought up in a predominantly Irish Catholic background in Liverpool, if you were seen walking around the streets with ‘The God Delusion’ in your hands in Liverpool you'd definitely get a few funny looks, but cosmopolitan Melbourne you can get away with it. Jordan Michaelides: Can you just give a quick little explain explainer for the audience what it's about.

Tom Williams: It's about the scientific approach to life rather than the religious approach, and how it’s completely different. They say never talk about politics or religion, so let's not go too far into it. Jordan Michaelides: *laughs* Yeah, it's a good book.

I bought that with ‘The Selfish Gene’ by Richard Dawkins which is pretty good too. They're good reads, I reckon. Another one for you, any favourite documentaries or movies, if you had to list your top three or five.

Tom Williams: I go through phases with documentaries in particular where I just binge watch something about a random topic. Jordan Michaelides: Are you a Netflix guy? Tom Williams: Yes, but, I find sometimes Netflix can just get sour, and there’s not a lot going on.

I move in trends from watching documentaries about guerrilla warfare in the democratic Republic of Congo to becoming completely fascinated with World War Two and all the things associated with it. Auschwitz is one of my most recent ones, which is a fairly morbid topic. Jordan Michaelides: Have you been there at all?

Tom Williams: I have not been, but I'd like to go. Jordan Michaelides: I'm actually in that stage again right now. I mean, I've had it over the years many times, you find a few good movies that really shows what it was like.

Schindler's, there was one called one the Wannsee conference with a brilliant English actor, Colin Firth was in it as well, just little films like that which are underrated. I'd think Schindler's list is a pretty well-known film, but just really gives you that perspective. Tom Williams: They’re completely eye, you just cannot fathom what went on.

So, to answer your question, a diverse range of documentaries. Jordan Michaelides: Last question for you, what has been the best purchase for you under $200 bucks? Tom Williams: Well, let's not talk about a purchase that I've made, what about a purchase that I'm going to make, that I'm on the verge of making?

Jordan Michaelides: It could also be a purchase that is an experience. It doesn't have to be a specific object Tom Williams: Well, we’re organizing, Fran and I, have started to organize a couple of life-size impressions of ours to send over to the UK for Christmas so we can sit them down at the Christmas dinner table and enjoy a bit of an over cook Turkey with the family. Jordan Michaelides: Wow, that's good.

I really like that. Tom Williams: So yeah, for a couple of hundred bucks, I think that will probably be the purchase of the year. Jordan Michaelides: You should start a little business like that for other experts.

Say, hey, you don’t have to go home… Tom Williams: I could be the go-to guy for life-size models. Jordan Michaelides: Tom, it's been a pleasure. We've already hit 30 minutes.

Thank you very much for joining us. Tom Williams: Thanks very much.

Vee Leung Phan is the Founder of TrackRecord Asia and former Head of Trading across multiple divisions for Deutsche Bank and Morgan Stanley. Vee made his way into the industry by chance, after realising there was no real opportunity back home during the 1997 Asia Financial Crisis. Fast forward 13+ years and Vee had co-founded a hedge fund, run multiple divisions for both Deutsche Bank and Morgan Stanley, and co-founded a machine learning tech startup.

TrackRecord Asia is a financial training academy for trading teams in banks and professional traders – designed to teach you the frameworks learnt in his days across first-class institutions. In this episode we’ll cover: Singapore and Vee’s childhood in Kuala Lumpur Uni life in Manchester and how he got into trading Lessons learnt from his mother Career path and insight into the industry Vee’s trading training framework The biggest mistake in the business. - Transcript: Jordan Michaelides: Margin Call is the podcast that gives you behind the scenes access to ups and downs of working in the Forex CFD industry. We interview the people that keep the show on the road, giving you insight into what makes the industry tick.

The series is guest hosted by myself, Jordan Michaelides, and produced by the team at Neuralle Media. To learn more, visit go www.gomarkets.com/podcast/ or take a look at the Go Market suite of products at www.gomarkets.com. Disclaimer: Go Markets is a derivatives broker and Jordan Michaelides is the managing director of Neuralle Media.

All opinions expressed by Jordan and podcast guests are solely their own and do not reflect the opinions of Go Markets, an AFSL license holder. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for financial decisions nor as an indication of future performance. Clients of go markets may hold positions in the derivatives mentioned.

A financial services guide and product disclosure statement for our products are available at the www.gomarkets.com website. Jordan Michaelides: In this episode we spoke with Vee Leung Phan. Vee is the founder of track record HR and former head of trading across multiple divisions for Deutsche Bank and Morgan Stanley.

Vee made his way into the industry by chance after realizing there was no real opportunity back home during the ‘97 Asian financial crisis. Fast forward 13 plus years and Vee has co- founded a hedge fund, he's run multiple divisions for both Deutsche Bank and Morgan Stanley as well as cofounded a machine learning tech startup in Singapore. Track record Asia is a financial trading academy for trading teams and banks, and professional traders alike.

It is designed to teach you the frameworks learnt in his days across first class institutions that we cover in this episode today. Vee is a great guy with a wealth of experience across the industry. This is a brilliant episode where we cover Singapore and his childhood in Kuala Lumpur, University life in Manchester and how he actually got into trading, lessons learned from his mother, career path, his trading training framework from Track Record Asia, and things like biggest mistakes in this business.

Now, we have a special competition for you guys as well: Three listeners to this episode can win a free copy of Vee’s recommended trading book which is called ‘The Next Perfect Trade’, and that will be autographed by the author Alex Gurvich as well. Participants will need to provide their feedback on his episode via www.trackrecordasia.com/podcast/, all submitted entries will also receive a free 12 week access to Track Record Asia's weekly risk call recordings and the week ahead marker report, so, a nice little prize there for you if you're willing to give it a go. If you enjoy this episode, do subscribe on your podcast app and share with your friends.

With all that said, thanks so much for listening. Let's get into the episode with Vee Leung Phan. Vee, thank you very much for joining us on what I think is a very early morning in Singapore for you.

First question for you, and probably the most important one is, what frustrates you the most about living in Singapore? Vee Leung Phan: In Singapore, the most frustrating thing to say about it is the weather. It's unreasonably hot, sometimes hot and humid.

I think with better weather Singapore would be the perfect place on earth. Jordan Michaelides: I was going to say what's it like today? What's the weather like?

Vee Leung Phan: It's usually either hot or raining. It's not raining, so it's probably hot out there. Jordan Michaelides: Interesting.

Now you didn't grow up in Singapore, I think, from memory, you spent your formative years in or just around the suburbs of Kuala Lumpur. I'm curious as to what sort of your earliest memory of your own childhood? Vee Leung Phan: That's an interesting question.

Yeah, I grew up in a small town outside off Kuala Lumpur, my earliest memory is really fuzzy, it’s literally fuzzy because I had really bad eyesight when I was really young, but nobody knew this. So, I was just going around thinking that that is normal for me to not be able to see clearly. I found out when I was about 10 years old that my eyesight was really bad because the teachers then started to realize I couldn't really repeat anything on the board until I got really close to the front, and strangely enough even though my whole family is short sighted I was the only one who’s sight issue was not discovered because my mother kept thinking that because I could memorize most of the things I did see that my eyesight was good because I knew what was going on, but actually I couldn’t see much.

It was really strange. Jordan Michaelides: Did you get that fixed? Did you kick classes or did you eventually… Vee Leung Phan: Yeah, I got glasses when I was 10 years old.

I'm not sure how you guys score this but it was 400 for me. That's huge, because most people start around 50 to a hundred. Jordan Michaelides: Really...

Vee Leung Phan: Yeah. I eventually deteriorated to about a thousand, which is almost legally blind, so I'd had corrective glasses which are really thick, so I was one of those little kids with really thick glasses. Vee Leung Phan: *chuckles* I can imagine that, how cliché’.

That's hilarious. When you were growing up was there anything in particular that you thought you were going to be as an adult, like a particular job? Vee Leung Phan: Oh, yes.

I was a very determined to be Spiderman, until I realized that wasn’t realistic, so, then I thought I'll become a scientist because that's what Peter Parker was. I was very set on being a scientist. As I grew older, I realized that being in Malaysia if you're a scientist you probably end up researching about different strains of rice, rubber trees or palm trees, so I thought that's not realistic, I'm not going to make any money from that, so, then I decided to settle on being an engineer and that's what I studied in school.

At university I did a degree in electronic engineering. Jordan Michaelides: That's right, yeah. You mentioned the university of Manchester, the Institute Of Science and Technology.

You did a Bachelors Of Electronic Engineering, I think this was around the peak of the Asian financial crisis, right? Why go to Manchester, out of interest? Vee Leung Phan: Why go to Manchester?

I applied for Cambridge, they rejected me *laughs*. I wanted to go to Oxford or Cambridge, I decided to go to Cambridge because there was no test required during the selection process, I was quite lazy. They rejected me, so then, the best engineering school in the UK at a time, and probably still is, is the Imperial College Of London.

They gave me a deferred entry, so I would go the next year and I thought, wow, this is silly, I don't want that. So then I went to the next best, which was actually a very distant next best, which is the University of Manchester. Jordan Michaelides: Interesting.

I find it so funny that you mentioned that mentality, that Asian mentality, of not wanting to, I guess, waste your time and defer. I remember I had that as a kid, my family's Greek so it's sort of like a similar mentality that you get in those Southern European families where you just want to make money, and, I find it curious because, this was the peak of 97 when you graduated I think, or around that time, it seemed, at least in a few of your biographies, that there was a mention of no real job opportunities back home and you sort of stumbled your way into working for what was Chase Manhattan, now JP Morgan Chase, as you wanted to get in from a computer science perspective, but, eventually it seems you were working on the FX trading side. I'm curious, when you got into that bank, what were the elements that excited you enough to continue going on with trading, FX commodities and so forth?

I'm just wondering what was going through your head at the time? Vee Leung Phan: Well, I’d just finished school. I had no money at all, and they offered me a job and provided training, so I thought, that’s great, it pays way more than what I would have made as an engineer.

At the time it was the peak of the NASDAQ boom. I applied for IT, I wanted to be in the IT department but they said they had no IT jobs but how about trading they asked. I said I had no clue what trading was, but that guy said, just give it a shot.

I said, okay, whatever, I'll just give it a shot and see what happens. I went through all the tests, all the interviews, and truly I had no idea what I was in for. I told them as much at the beginning but said I have no clue what trading is, but I will learn if you are willing to teach me.

I think they probably liked that because most of the people that were going there were from finance backgrounds, finance majors, maybe had PhDs and everybody seems to think they have figured out everything about what trading was. So, I went in with and open mind and I stayed because the money was good and I was being paid to learn for three month. There was a classroom-based training, so I was going to classes and after that it was just hanging out with different trading desks to see what they do.

That was quite good for me, I thought it was quite cool given that all I had to do was turn up and learn and they're paying me for it. Jordan Michaelides: Happy days. I'm curious how you perceive yourself personality wise.

I mean, my experience in the industry is you get two types of people generally, the type that just love the excitement of the trade, you know, the market environment, the pressure involved in it. And then you get the other types who are very calm, cool, and collected no matter what is going on. I'm curious as to how you see yourself.

What sort of mentality do you sit within when it comes to trading the market? Vee Leung Phan: Good question. I would like to think of myself as calm and collected, like James Bond, but probably that's not true.

In fact I’m quite animated at work, some people think it's kind of strange that I'm always commenting on something, and, in fact, that's why I got many opportunities at the early stage of my career, because I was observing every single market even if it really had nothing to do with me, you know, I’d be making comments that this thing is higher, this thing is moving. I was basically, I guess, the loud speaker for Bloomberg news, right? So, I was in a days where headlines were kind of difficult to find, I would be commenting on every single headline that came out and why markets were moving.

That's why I got quite a lot attention as a junior trader because, I was with this kid, right, and people thought he seems to be seems to be aware of what's happening all around the world, but I was literally reading every single headline that comes out. Jordan Michaelides: That's, that's so funny. And how you put your name out there through that sort of externalization, I really liked that.

When you were growing up with the particular lessons that you hold with you today, maybe it's a principle, a lesson, maybe it was something that was taught to you directly or indirectly from either of your parents. Vee Leung Phan: I remember this one time my mother was driving me to school, she was always very suspicious of whether I was taking drugs or not because I was a really small kid and I didn't seem to be growing at all, I look really thin then, and I was really small compared to my peers. She was always worried that I’d be bullied or I’d join a gang or something like that, succumb to peer pressured to join a gang.

She said to me, uh, are you taking any drugs? I said no, we did that come from? She said I just wanted to make sure you know to never do drugs.

Then she says another thing that you need to know is never joined a gang. This was a huge problem in the neighbourhood school I was going to at a time. I wasn’t from a well-to-do family, we didn't live in the best neighborhood so the schools were not that great.

Right. There were gangs dominant at the time and is was either you were in a gang or you were being bullied by the gang, so she was always worried about that. Of course, I was kind of a nerd back then so that was very far from my, for my mind.

I mean, who would recruit me into a gang anyway. This is where it gets interesting, she said if you do join, don't be the henchman, you have to be the boss. Jordan Michaelides: Wow.

I liked that the first assumption was that you were doing drugs and you're in a gang. That's so funny. Vee Leung Phan: Yeah.

So, she says if you really need to join, you have to be the boss, you cannot be the henchman. At first this was really weird to me because I was very small kid, how would it be possible for a small kid to become the boss of the gang? She said to me, it really doesn't matter how big you are in life, it's all about how you carry yourself.

She said you are like a chilli, we have different types of chili and the spiciest is the one that's the smallest, she says you have to be just like that, you have to be the spiciest. That's a lesson my mom taught me. When I was really young, as I mentioned, my eyesight was really bad, so I did really poorly in school, I remember I didn't really know how to read when I was six years old, and when I went to a school after kindergarten, I only knew 26 words in English from being taught A to Z examples, right?

I only knew 26 words and I was really surprised when the boy next to me could spell boy, I was really stunned. I said, Oh wow, this guy's a genius. How does he know this?

When a teacher says, what's B, I say ball, that was the only thing I knew only thing I knew. He says boy, and I thought, wow, how does he know boy. Then some other people said examples and I thought they were all geniuses.

Then the teachers had a conversation who my mother and told her, your son is a little bit slow, he doesn't know much. That never deterred my mom, she always managed to convince me that I was doing really well, that as long as you do your best, it's fine. I was the worst in the classes in the beginning, until I had better eyesight, then I became a good student.

Through it all she never doubted me and never made me feel like I was an idiot. She convinced me that as long as you try you can be the boss. Right.

So, I grew up in a bit with sense that I was the chosen one, like I had this invulnerability and I could do anything that I want, I'd go try out for sports which I couldn't do because the other kids were so much bigger than me, but I thought, I’ve got to try. Jordan Michaelides: That's really interesting. So, your mother instilled this initiative to just keep keeping on, which is interesting.

She sounds like a great mum. I'm curious, when I got into the nuts and bolts your career, I mean, I went back and looked at your career and you've done a lot. If you look at just what's on LinkedIn you've worked across FX, interest rates, equity markets, multiple cities, London, Singapore, Hong Kong and Seoul for a while.

I think of your beginnings at JP Morgan, you eventually worked at Deutsche Morgan Stanley, you co-founded a hedge with your old boss from JP Morgan, so there's a lot going on there and I just wonder, looking back at your career, as both a trader and a manager, what stands out to you is the biggest insight from your time in the industry? Vee Leung Phan: I traded most of the developed markets and quite a lot of the emerging markets, and in different countries, as you said, and, it was very interesting for me that I could figure out the markets very quickly, regardless of their idiosyncrasies. I think that was because, at the heart of it, every market is still driven by human activity, right?

Human instincts, human behaviours, that’s the commonality that runs through every single market, so, it came to a point where in our philosophy at Chase at a time, it really doesn't matter what your background is. You could be an Asian guy, but you could be parachute into Mexico and figure out the markets within one week to two weeks and then be really good at it after a few months. Of course, at the time, in the London trading room, the Asian guy typically was the IT guy.

I always felt that maybe it was a bit difficult for me, but my boss, who I later co-founded the hedge fund with, he ran the Scandinavian interest rate desk at that time, I guess I was the first guy originally from Asia to be trading in the Scandinavian markets. At the time it was still an emerging market, almost all my colleagues were all blonde with blue eyes. For some of them the first time they saw me eating ramen they thought it was very strange stuff *laughs*.

Jordan Michaelides: And this is in the ‘80s, was it? Vee Leung Phan: This was in 1997. Jordan Michaelides: Interesting.

If I think of how much London has changed, even just in the last seven years when it comes to Asian food, it's quite amazing. You could see that eating that it would sort of open a whole new world, you know? Vee Leung Phan: I think they were really just not adventurous.

They're always having a salad or a sandwich. It was just a new experience for them. Jordan Michaelides: So you think the biggest insight then, from your time was that in the industry, is that companies are essentially able to build up a person with a certain type of framework or certain type of mindset or principles and that allows that person to jump into any market and do as they please.

Do you think that’s accurate? Vee Leung Phan: Yes. So, the commonalities of different markets are similar in a sense?

Of course, the products are very different, it’s actually easier for an interest rate trader to trade FX, than for an FX trader to trade interest rates because there are so many more dimensions in interest rates. But besides that, if you’re a trader in Singapore and go to Hong Kong, it should only take a very take a very short period of time before you can learn how to trade that market. Some markets are more difficult than others if the news is in the local language, so you have a slightly slower reaction time, but generally we want people to get to that kind of level of expertise which, like you said, is basically a framework, you learn a set of principles to trading.

Jordan Michaelides: That sort of brings me to what you're doing now, which is both Track Record and Shentilium. In Singapore, and after your career within the industry, you had a few years off, taking a sabbatical, you now essentially run these two firms and, form memory, I think Track Record is more about financial training, like a financial trading Academy, which essentially conducts training for trading teams and banks as well as training programs for retail traders. I found that really interesting because now that you've spoken about that concept of of parachuting someone into a certain market, no matter what, that you're sort of taking that same mentality and teaching people and saying, hey, it doesn't really matter what market you're in, so long as you find follow these guidelines and principles, you will genuinely be able to work your way into a market as long as you're passionate about it.

I'm curious then, what are your general principles, how do you sort of generally teach people about this sort of stuff in your programs? What are some of the general principles that come from that? Vee Leung Phan: After I left finance, after I left Morgan Stanley, I did all the usual stuff like travel, learning things I wanted to learn, doing things I wanted to do to do, but I also spent a lot of time thinking about if I was given the opportunity to talk to my younger self, how would I teach him?

How can I teach him to be a better person, a better trader? That's how I came up with the trading framework. I call it a framework because it's not like a set of rules, it's a set of principles where you can adjust based on your own personality and how you can become a proficient trader.

You mentioned it’s interesting to you that our philosophy at the time was that we have to reach a level of proficiency where we can be parachuted into any market, in case some people go on vacation or there is a crisis, we will to be able to trade different markets in a very short period of time. One of the most common questions I get when I talk to people about my training program is, they love to ask, especially from the retail sector, are you teaching FX or are you teaching interest rates? They don't talk about interest rates they always say FX, commodities or equities, and they are very confused when I say my trading methods are agnostic, it really doesn't matter what markets you trade, as long as you follow these principles you will be successful over long periods of time.

It's very different from the trading providers that are commonly out there, especially for the retail sector, where they focus on the product, which I think is kind of a waste of time in the age of Google where you can just go online and learn all the product knowledge that you want for free, I don't believe in teaching people stuff that they can get online and charging a fee for it. If they’re not teaching product knowledge then it’s usually something that's very specific, they give it a cool name, call it their patented whatever, or the 3 principle management method, all these esoteric names of trading methods, and I think this is what captures the interest of retail traders because they always think that there's a secret to the trading that professionals know which they're not telling us. It's like the Holy grill and this guy on the internet is going to reveal it to me.

It’s a silver bullet, a secret method, and they are only sharing with you because they like you so much or because they’ve already made so much money that now they just want to share because Wall Street is taking advantage of Main Street and now they want to give something back, but only a limited amount of time, so call us now, you’ll be one of the few people they want to teach. People believe this, I find that kind of strange. So, my trading framework is based on a set of principles where I believe that the training process is simple, but it is not easy, and it's not easy because most of the things that you want to do, that you are your engineered by your DNA to do, and your human instincts, your human tendencies are really bad for trading.

You tend to be greedy, you tend to be fearful, you tend run with the mob, rush with the crowd into different things. That's all instinct that served us well in the Savannah when humans we're evolving, but it's not good at all for trading. This is what my framework does, it gives you a set of principals, a set off methods that you can use to stop yourself from blowing it up.

Jordan Michaelides: Yeah, it's just preventing that. I remember when I first got into the industry, when I was a lot younger, I lost a lot of money trading oil futures and that was sort of the moment where I took a step back and realized that it's all about protecting that downsize. I read a brilliant book about this, it's called ‘What I learned losing $1 million’.

It’s by an old CME exchange executive and how he lost, basically his whole life, how he destroyed his life. It's very, very fascinating, it’s one of those things that people are so often looking at the upside, but very rarely looking at the downside, which sort of brings me to the thought, you know, of the people you see, whether they're in the banking industry or they're retail traders, what do you think is the biggest mistake or waste of time that people make in this business? Vee Leung Phan: I guess the biggest mistakes that lead to eventual financial ruin is vanity.

Again, it’s a very human instinct, they allow success to go to their head, this happens for retail traders and professional traders, they start drinking their own kool-aid they think they've figured it out. That’s why most traders go through periods of a success and then an extremely bad result. They start to make money, they become more casual in their risk management, they start to take a lot more risk and blow their bank roll.

That’s the case with every successful trading story that you here, all the guys who are really successful in trading have long successful careers that that spans a number of years, not a flash in the pan or catching a bubble. When asked for the secret to their success, they will always credit it to a similar incident where they nearly lost everything or they did lose everything and then they realized that the most important thing is to stay in the game. When you start to get over confident, your ego gets in the way, you start to believe that you’re the best ever, that you've figured it all out.

As I look back upon the years on my career I find that the times that I lost the most money was always after a period of success. Jordan Michaelides: That's very interesting. Now, we're already running out of time, I'm going to have to try and convince you to come back on for another episode because there's a lot here I wanted to cover on the market itself, cryptocurrencies and technical analysis, but I'm going to have to finish off with some short, fast questions for you.

What does your morning routine currently look like? Vee Leung Phan: I wake up and check the news from overnight. That's quite easy now because we have a forum for this and I'll just read through the forum and see exactly what's going on in the markets Jordan Michaelides: And what about in the evening?

How do you sort of decompress at night? What do you get up to typically? Vee Leung Phan: To decompress, I have dinner with my friends, I like to read a bit or maybe watch a movie, nothing special, there's no secret routine.

I do try a bit of meditation now and then, when I’m going to go to sleep. Just 5 or 10 minute of medication. It helps.

Jordan Michaelides: And if you had to give the book to the audience, if you had to choose one book for Christmas time this year, something that's been the most influential on you, what would that book be? Vee Leung Phan: If we are talking about trading, my favorite trading book is called The Next Perfect Trade, it’s by a friend of mine I worked with at JP Morgan New York, he was a kind of a legend on the floor is one of the most successful traders that I've worked with. He’s put down his thoughts on how to find the next perfect trade I've been witness to the real deals, seen the way he's conducted his trading.

There are a lot of books out there that are written a friend and people who profess to know what trading is, and there are some real good books about trading, but quite often it concentrates on the life of the trader. This book talks about the process of trading, it’s a good book to have if you're talking about trading. In fact, at Track Record we have a few autographed copies that we would they have to share with members of the audience who write in with any thoughts or questions they have about this podcast.

Jordan Michaelides: So that’s by Alex Gurevich, is it? Vee Leung Phan: Yes, correct. Jordan Michaelides: I'm going to have to check that book out.

Last question for you, what has been the best purchase that's had the most positive impact or something that affects your life in a big way? That's under $200 USD. Vee Leung Phan: I guess that would be an internet connection? *laughs* Jordan Michaelides: *laughs* I like that.

Now, where can people find you on social media? On other websites and whatnot. Vee Leung Phan: They can check out our website www.trackrecordasia.com, my email address is there, they can email with comments or questions.

Jordan Michaelides: And for social media, on Twitter and Instagram it's TrackRecordAsia. Vee, thank you so much for doing this. It's been a pleasure having you on.

Like I said, it’d be great if we can twist your arm to come back on because there's still a lot I want to cover. Thank you for getting up early and doing this with us. Vee Leung Phan: No problem at all, it’s been great, thank you.

Thanks for having me. I'd love to come back. Jordan Michaelides: Awesome.

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